Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

All aspects of the Liverpool band - past present & future.

Moderators: Tony, Syl

Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby adam » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:49 am

THE TOPIC:
okay so i know this is going to stir a few pots (im even feeling slightly hesitant saying this) but i feel like it MUST be asked

IS IT OKAY for lee to slag his album, (calling it shit, saying he wants nothing to do with it ect)... yet STILL be receiving the royalties from it for close to 20+ years now?

if he TRUELY hates it and wants nothing to do with it, then why doesn't he just take all of the proceeds generated from the profits of the album and donate them to a worthy charity???

if he DOES accept the royalties,then isn't a person who compromises their principles for personal gain technically a whore by definition?? if lee TRUELY has the principles he so often reminds everyone of, then shouldnt he REFUSE to take the money generated by the distorted misrepresentation of his art??

does it matter whether he really likes it, if he is still making money off of it?

_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
MY OPINION:
i duno.....i FUCKING LOVE LEE AND I FUCKING LOVE THE MUSIC HE's MADE, its just that after 20 + years of waiting for the RIGHT version of EVEN the FIRST album (lee approved that is) that i think my patience and my tolerance for bullshit from this man are at its peak...

if LEE had REALLY WANTED to make this album the way he hears it in his head after 30 years, HE COULD HAVE FUCKING DONE IT....if HE was serious about it, i think he would've made it by now....he would've bought shit loads of vintage gear and recorded in with one microphone, in one take ( or however he imagines recording it with the right sound)...

he could have recorded it himself and released it himself like radiohead did with "In Rainbows".....(which was extemely successful btw)

or he could just skip recording the new songs altogether and just perform them LIVE on-stage...just so the world could hear them

in my opinion after 30 years of working on the same songs/new songs, there is really no excuse except for the lack of output except for laziness, fear, or a loss of inspiration.

if shit-loads of artists from the past have been able to capture what he's after (the who, early beatles, stones, bo diddley, robert johnson, bob dylan ect,) THEN HE CAN FUCKING DO IT TOO....and if he cant, then he shouldn't be as highly regarded as an artist....because no artist, no matter how great they are, should be CONSIDERED great if they couldn't even articulate or express what they were feeling in their own head.....that's what separates the thoughts/feelings in your mind from an actual piece of art that physically manifests those thoughts/feelings...

ex. right now im seeing a beautiful Rembrandt painting in my mind...now if i could just fucking know how to paint, i could make it.

you see, that's what separates me from Rembrant

thats what separates Lee from all the greats
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

AND LEE, (IN THE EXTREMELY LOW PROBABILITY THAT YOUR READING THIS), i have this to say to YOU:

Come on lee...get off your fucking ass and get to work...you have a fucking job to do....a job that's SO important it can really only be between you and God or Love or whatever it is that binds this universe together.....you are not accomplishing what you were put on this earth to do...you are FAILING your mission...you have let fear and anxieties and doubts take over and you have rebelled against your true purpose: SPREADING JOY AND HAPPINESS AND LOVE THROUGH YOUR MUSIC...get back on the horse lee...we need you........and all you need is love
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________

okay im done hahaha.... i feel like howard beale from that movie Network
adam
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:05 am

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby Marbled » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:47 am

Interesting read.

I don't think Lee should give his royalties away, why should he? As he dislikes the recordings? He loves the songs still. I hated being on the dole and signing on, I still needed the money, I'm not a person who can turn down dole money and live. Money is money, wages are wages. They pay the bills. Gotta accept from the hand that feeds more often than not (rubbish job, underpaid, dole, lack of opportunity etc..)

There's a big piece of the puzzle we don't know about as La's fans. The respect and privacy he has been given by everyone Lee has worked with, we're not privy to that and left to guess what it is. Why no leaks or gossip? I don't know.

The doing the songs live and forget recording them has been discussed lots and is my favourite option. I feel less and less enthusiastic that it will happen.

Obsessions are for life and not just a gimmick. Whatever anybody feels about their passion they are entitled too, we all have them. For this man it's more public.

End of the day it boils down to this forum.
Marbled
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:53 am

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby The_Midnight_Rambler » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:46 am

It's an interesting point you raise but I don't begrudge him taking royalties personally. Ultimately the guy has to put food on the table and for him and his family. I'm not hugely passionate about my job and I'm definitely only doing it for the money...but I believe I have just as much right to get paid for the work as anyone else doing it, even if they 'believe' in what they're doing a little more than I do.

I have wondered the same thing about leaks though 'marbled'. Considering we have heard tales of Lee suddenly doing u-turns on working with people and cutting them off after several months of an intense, very close working relationship (playing together for 10 hours a day or even living together) it's a wonder why people stay so incredibly loyal to him. I'm sure there must be dozens of tapes/recordings out there in existence but none of them ever make their way into the public domain. Only last month Drew from Babyshambles acknowledged he has a laptop full of recordings. If he poured nine months of his life into those recordings you could argue he has every right, though not as much as Lee, to decide what happens to them. I think it's amazing that in the 20+ years since the Kitchen Tape only the Crescent recordings have made their way on to the internet.
User avatar
The_Midnight_Rambler
 
Posts: 187
Joined: Wed May 04, 2005 5:19 pm
Location: Guildford

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby redlandsman87 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 7:37 pm

I challenge any person, aspiring musician or not, to turn down his reported royalty earnings. Especially any person who a) hates their job, b) has a family of any sort to look after or c) both. Being a perfectionist with a grandiose idea of how music should sound is one thing...turning down money for songs that he himself wrote is another.
redlandsman87
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:59 pm

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby eggyroader » Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:11 pm

If lee didnt get the money who would? Universal . and for every quid Lee gets in royalties yer can bet ya life they get 10. but i know what ya sayin, if lee really wanted that album and any others released he could of done it by now.
Allways thought that the La's sound great in a radio station studio, why not of recorded it in one?
eggyroader
 
Posts: 134
Joined: Wed Dec 28, 2011 2:31 am

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby redlandsman87 » Wed Jun 20, 2012 9:32 pm

Gotta agree...the "punk" I Can't Sleep from BBC is fucking brilliant! My favorite La's release, period.

Let's not get "A.J. Lieberman" on Lee now. He and others do reportedly read the forum, either for a laugh or for the genuine opinions of his fans. The forum was shut down for what, about a week because of hateful and disparaging comments? I'm sure many of us don't want a repeat of that.

This forum has been around for about ten years. If Lee does read it regularly, he's had a chance to read every opinion, every thought, every interpretation of his "legend" and speculation surrounding such possible. He's probably read cries and pleadings for new recordings numerous times over, not to mention being asked about such personally at concerts and afterwards, by fans, other musicians, authors, etc.

No questioning, prodding, message board topics, or petitions have worked previously nor will they persuade him in the future. The only person who can convince Lee to return is Lee himself.
redlandsman87
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:59 pm

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby Marbled » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:11 pm

redlandsman87 wrote:Gotta agree...the "punk" I Can't Sleep from BBC is fucking brilliant! My favorite La's release, period.

Let's not get "A.J. Lieberman" on Lee now. He and others do reportedly read the forum, either for a laugh or for the genuine opinions of his fans. The forum was shut down for what, about a week because of hateful and disparaging comments? I'm sure many of us don't want a repeat of that.


I think we can fairly and honestly discuss Lee in this forum as has been done for years. It got too personal on other levels before the shut down :(

To say Lee is crazy not to release anything is not saying he's crazy! :wink:

Massively agreed about the radio and live cuts, so spontaneous. Now either they record a radio session as suggested, or record it all LIVE in a studio, back to basics, no overdubs. Lots of mics, lots of tracks, trying to catch lots of vibes and different areas of sonics. Get a good mixer to blend just a couple of mics which best caught the atmosphere and instrument/vocal balance, mastered lightly to keep the dynamic, up it to BandCamp, avoid iTunes and Spotify. All money to the band and none of that Apple malarky or Napster junk where some uni kid is making billions from the musicians who put so much work in and get nothing back.

Or do a Pearl Jam. Do a big tour, record and release every show as an individual release on a limited edition basis. Great revenue and lots of high quality recordings, different desks and atmospheres. Lots of magic, lots of potential, occasionally not great shows.

One reason I worry why Lee won't record and he is justified in doing so and we're all maybe guilty of this. Lee would want his hard work and product to be in the hands of a buyer, not downloaded from a torrent or P2P etc.. I can only presume he is a stickler for old music buying ways and that 128k tracks would mince with his head after all that hard studio work!
Marbled
 
Posts: 654
Joined: Fri Jan 30, 2004 1:53 am

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby redlandsman87 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:08 am

He could do like The 22-20s did...With no announcement whatsoever after years of being on hiatus, release your records on a tiny, unheard of Japanese label! Anyone else listen to the 22-20s? They are boss.

The 22-20s split in '06 and member Martin Trimble made the following statement, which is dead on Lee Mavers...

Listening to Lightnin' Hopkins, Albert King and Buddy Guy made me want to pick up a guitar. What immediately made me fall in love with blues was the rawness, simplicity and the truth of it. I wanted 22-20s to be about taking that essence and using it as fuel to create something both we and other people could relate to.

“I think initially most bands wear their influences on their sleeve but for a number of reasons we've not been able to go beyond that first stage. It was always our desire to start writing and recording a follow-up record as soon as the first studio album was recorded. That didn't happen - we toured for a year and a half. There is a prevailing myth within music that touring is always the hard-working, 'honest' way to connect with people. The reality for us is that I think it is difficult to move away from a certain sound when you are reminded of it every night. Unfortunately we were not surrounded by people who understood that.

Honesty is about playing songs you passionately believe in, playing in a band you passionately believe in and I am no longer able to say that about 22-20s. I am no longer comfortable being in a band named after a blues song. Much like the last record it indicates where I was four years ago and what I was listening to. It doesn't accurately reflect what I listen to now and where I want to go. I'm no longer comfortable with people's perception of what we represent.

“Being in a hard working, British-blues touring band has never been something I've wished to endorse yet that's we what appear to have drifted into. In light of this, a decision has been made to call it a day and to go our separate ways.


So Lee isn't the only one! :lol: Glad they got back together in '08 and have made some great tunes since. Lee could learn a thing or two from these guys.
redlandsman87
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:59 pm

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby Tony » Thu Jun 21, 2012 5:56 pm

I made an idle joke with Syl a while back, that I could see Lee having a mess about in a recording studio, or a radio session, perhaps with a financial incentive, not aiming to do anything really, and just producing gold, oblivious and unaware as to how it happened. You know, like if the Kitchen jam got a commercial release back in the day cause it's so good, that kind of happy accident vibe.

Thing is, I could see that happening as much as any kind of release!
User avatar
Tony
 
Posts: 2357
Joined: Mon Jun 17, 2002 5:13 pm

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby Phil Spector » Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:11 pm

redlandsman87 wrote:Let's not get "A.J. Lieberman" on Lee now.


Cough...A pedant writes...

I think you mean AJ Weberman, a nutcase fan who famously raked through Bob Dylan's bins. He also recorded a phone call he made to Dylan (and released it on bootleg LP) and over-analysed every lyric Dylan ever wrote up until 1966 to find hidden messages and meanings.

We've already got the (yaaaaaawn) hidden heroin references in There She Goes, but does anyone on here care to admit to having had a wee poke through Lee's bins anytime?
User avatar
Phil Spector
 
Posts: 276
Joined: Thu Jun 16, 2005 1:45 pm

Re: Mavers PURE artistic integrity??

Postby redlandsman87 » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:49 pm

My mistake, that was definitely who I was referring to. Don't rightly know why "Lieberman" came to mind instead of Weberman. Thanks for the correction.
redlandsman87
 
Posts: 119
Joined: Wed Jun 11, 2008 7:59 pm


Return to The La's

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests