what is to become of the music industry?

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what is to become of the music industry?

Postby breadhead » Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:06 pm

hi fellow la's fans.
Am just wondering where the music industry is headed? I know this is an impossible question to answer but does anyone else feel a little 'whats the point anymore?' I havent heard of a band with anything original to say, i know great bands are of their age and my hopes for a new clash, la's whoever maybe unrealistic but in the messed up world we live in surely someone out their is angry enough to talk about it and get it on record.

David Bowie has supposedly given up music predicting that it will become like electricity, a servce you subscribe to.

so what do you think, is music as an art form dead or am i just moaning like i always do on this forum. I resepct views on here more than the music mags so 'lets be having you' as delia said

answers on a postcard, seya...
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby Syl » Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:09 pm

I hope the future isn't an .mp3 at 192kbps.
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*caution, contains Americans chatting shite*

Postby da capo » Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:04 pm

<chats bollocks>

http://www.wreckingcrewfilm.com/dedications.php

As is often the case, you have to look back to find the way forward.

In the beginning, there wasn't anything really wrong with the idea behind a record label. As time progressed, the wrong people ended up in charge, the people that TRULY built the institutions were neglected and the industry sank into decline. To make matters worse (from a label perspective) those who felt marginalized found a way to gain leverage against their perceived oppressors via technological advances that the label was unable/unwilling to adapt to.

I think that if the people who are in charge now start to put systems in place to care for their employees (past and present), that they won't have any trouble finding "the next big thing" because it will be a natural extension of the culture of the label.

Stevie Wonder happened because he grew up watching the Funk Brothers work.

Brian Wilson happened because he grew up watching the Wrecking Crew work.

Norah Jones happened because someone had the good sense to keep Arif Mardin from being offered early retirement.

Who the hell wants to work for a company that knows the best thing that can happen career-wise to a successful artist is for them to die. Why the hell would anyone who really cared about artist development allow Amy Winehouse to continue a world tour when she is transparently falling apart due to substance abuse and marital difficulties?

Somewhere, some insanely talented kid is working on his demo with his home computer. When he is finished he can pay about $40 and have it put on every online music retailer's site. All you have to do is convince him that you have something to offer him. You own Abbey Road. You have control (through Live Nation and Ticketmaster) of nearly every venue in town. You have the names and phone numbers of every producer and engineer in the world that this person has ever wanted to work with. You can put their face in the margins of every music blog that they have ever downloaded an mp3 from. It should really be shooting fish in a barrel. But there goes OKGO off into the wild blue yonder because you couldn't monitize youtube clip views.

Honestly, I love record labels. Creation, Factory, Sub Pop, Def Jux, Dap Tone... I put most of my life into learning a trade to come work for these people, but I swear watching them snatch defeat from the jaws of victory is like being a beaten wife sometimes.

Well.... you fucking asked.

<fucks off to find another drink>
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby LookingGlass » Tue Apr 06, 2010 11:46 pm

The illegal download will be the death of music, and then the film industry, and everyone who did so with either will be, to a greater or lesser extent, to blame. If you value something, pay for it.

Yes, music was overpriced 5-10 years ago, but efforts have been made to make it cheaper. Surely what's more annoying is the price of petrol or gas, electricity or council tax. It's a shame a collective attempt can't be made to lower the price of one of those instead.

I'm sure the best bands nowadays remain unsigned (either that or the indie label they were on is bought by a major) as the money that oiled the machine that made the best bands successful is no longer there. Now it would appear to be about risk, and avoiding it. Success needs to be instant. These terms aren't consistent with creativity.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby antoine010891 » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:01 am

I'm 18yrs old, and firmly believe that music is heading for its grave. I got into music about 3 years ago and now find it to be the main frame of my life, struggling to name any bands for a while that have offered something new, can name a couple that are alright, but can't hold a light to genuinely great bands.

I believe alot of what the man himself Lee says. All the interviews after the album was released. It's all digitally ruined. Digital sound ruins things, all the keyboards and synths, where is the skill in pressing a button? No heart of passion has to go into it. Digital downloads ruin things, they sound crap and get abused, no one pays for music, whether the artist wants the money or not, pay for it, they earn it.

On te subject of sound, you grate a block of cheese, you can't roll it back up to the block it was afterwards, it just a grated mess, not what it was, that is what modern music sounds like, you cant hear any real sound. This is just another bullet in the side, takes all skill and passion that used to be in music away, all originality, and everything sounds the same.

Like Lee said, business mans motives, all about the money now, yet they aren't getting any because everyone expects it for free, listening to it on shit headphones, shit quality, all in all shit music.

Think I as one of many, could go on forever and ever and ever about it, makes for great conversation with the idiots that sit on buses with there electric chav noise!
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby da capo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:30 am

That's kinda why I posted the above link. If the labels REALLY value what they have done in the past so much, why are they giving the child of one of their top money producers a hard time about rights for use in a film that is only going to expose more people to the label's back catalog? Like you said, if you value something: pay for it.

Oh, and home taping isn't killing music :)
Last edited by da capo on Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby LookingGlass » Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:41 am

da capo wrote:That's kinda why I posted the above link. If the labels REALLY value what they have done in the past so much, why are they giving the child of one of their top money producers a hard time about rights for use in a film that is only going to expose more people to the label's back catalog. Like you said, if you value something: pay for it.

Oh, and home taping isn't killing music :)


Do you mean this bit?:

"The Moon is Blue (Ralph Marterie) - The Moon is Blue was my dear husband's very first profession recording. This was the beginning of many many more. His memory will be always with us through our son, Denny's "Wrecking Crew" film. Much love to both Honey and Mom"
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby da capo » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:00 am

Yeah, Denny did the film and won the audience choice award here at the Seattle International Film Festival. He lost his father awhile back and decided that the Wrecking Crew deserved the same treatment that the Funk Brothers got with Standing In The Shadows of Motown. Now he wants to release it on DVD and he has to find people to help him pay for all of the music licensing. Seems to me that the revenue generated by the increased interest generated by the film would help offset the cost over time.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby LookingGlass » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:08 am

da capo wrote:Yeah, Denny did the film and won the audience choice award here at the Seattle International Film Festival. He lost his father awhile back and decided that the Wrecking Crew deserved the same treatment that the Funk Brothers got with Standing In The Shadows of Motown. Now he wants to release it on DVD and he has to find people to help him pay for all of the music licensing. Seems to me that the revenue generated by the increased interest generated by the film would help offset the cost over time.


Good point and idea for a film.. love Standing In The Shadows. Probably would be offset over time (as long as the company survives that long?). A niche film though and one mainly for people who know how great the music is. I didn't buy anything as a result of seeing Standing In The Shadows... did buy the DVD though.
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Re: *caution, contains Americans chatting shite*

Postby LookingGlass » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:46 pm

da capo wrote:
Who the hell wants to work for a company that knows the best thing that can happen career-wise to a successful artist is for them to die. Why the hell would anyone who really cared about artist development allow Amy Winehouse to continue a world tour when she is transparently falling apart due to substance abuse and marital difficulties?

Somewhere, some insanely talented kid is working on his demo with his home computer. When he is finished he can pay about $40 and have it put on every online music retailer's site. All you have to do is convince him that you have something to offer him. You own Abbey Road. You have control (through Live Nation and Ticketmaster) of nearly every venue in town. You have the names and phone numbers of every producer and engineer in the world that this person has ever wanted to work with. You can put their face in the margins of every music blog that they have ever downloaded an mp3 from. It should really be shooting fish in a barrel. But there goes OKGO off into the wild blue yonder because you couldn't monitize youtube clip views.



Couldn't agree more with most of this - part of the industry was saved by Michael Jackson's (and before that I guess Kurt Cobain's) death(s).

So, did the industry get what was coming to 'em? Scraping the barrel of the timeframe of rights? From the little I know about the music industry I was amazed how they weren't visionaries (any more perhaps). They want it all packaged up and tied with a big bow on top. I always thought when I was in a band they'd have great ears to spot and develop potential. But they want a sure thing, a hit single before the deal's even on the table.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby Tony » Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:50 pm

Most bands now only get signed after a string of gigs and a sizeable self-created following. No label wants to create a market FOR you. They want you to arrive with your own market, and direct your music at a demographic they think is similar.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby LookingGlass » Wed Apr 07, 2010 2:00 pm

Tony wrote:Most bands now only get signed after a string of gigs and a sizeable self-created following. No label wants to create a market FOR you. They want you to arrive with your own market, and direct your music at a demographic they think is similar.


I agree. I do think labels are lazy and unimaginative, but I'd rather have a future with them in it for all the reasons Da Capo said. Having said that (and no, I'm not sitting on the fence) people don't seem as interested in albums any more, just tracks, and with downloaded mp3s there's no sleevenotes to study to find out the studio/producer/engineer used. Like Syl said, the future being mp3s at 192kbps isn't one to look forward to with excitement.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby Marbled » Wed Apr 07, 2010 4:44 pm

Tony wrote:Most bands now only get signed after a string of gigs and a sizeable self-created following. No label wants to create a market FOR you. They want you to arrive with your own market, and direct your music at a demographic they think is similar.


Not all bands though.. am fed up of reading of scene bands being signed before gigging and having only a coupla tunes in the can when they sign, but a few photo sessions and image consultancy having secured the deal.
Been buying the NME again recently, forgive me, and the amount of bands am reading about where the reviewer is seriously saying that their new single isn't quite as good as their haircuts, but as good as their shoes, so we're onto a promise here.. atrocious!

Doing some recording myself at the moment, and a bunch of mates in bands doing so too, am really interested in the view of albums being dead, because of iTunes. With artists insisting on releasing EPs or singles only, as people/market don't care for album packages, rather downloading the singles etc.. And that music releases now are seen mainly as a vehicle to get people to gigs where bands make the money. Meaning a lot of bands giving away free music to push more attention to the upcoming tours.
An interesting point in this weeks NME (ok shoot me), that Jack White saying the internet is to blame for the state of modern music and lack of music icons... no need to discuss that point, fairly obvious what he means.

And I don't believe for a minute Michael Jackson is dead, rather knowing that 'being dead' is the best thing to happen to his career since 1984 or whatever, huge profits, reputation sealed and 'controlled' from now on, debts paid off.. everything an artist coulda wanted. And not in an Elvis isn't dead way rumours, but the video footage on YouTube and theories are just obvious to me he's still alive and has concocted the whole thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw this guy alone proves it to me, it's him. Anyway..

Back to mp3s. The new format which is coming out soon, I have read about, but forget details, on how, like as stated about, albums will be digitally released in FLAC/WAV lossless on downloads (thanks to broadband), and come as a big big package including full artwork, sleeve notes and the intention of getting back to what the 70s did to artwork and physical releases and making things overblown and full again and not just icons like that have become on an iPod screen. Dunno if it'll work, but good that broadband will allow lossless to become a norm in download speed, and computer hard-drives being of size to accomodate massive files/folders.

When I was 15/16, just as many people I knew had copied cassettes of albums/singles/radio/bootlegs to original copies, as do now with free downloads to legit purchases. Labels might complain, but you could walk in record shop, as now, and pick up a cassette/cd/vinyl and on the shelf next to it, a format to copy and distribute it yourself. Oh well.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby LookingGlass » Wed Apr 07, 2010 5:45 pm

Marbled wrote:
Tony wrote:Most bands now only get signed after a string of gigs and a sizeable self-created following. No label wants to create a market FOR you. They want you to arrive with your own market, and direct your music at a demographic they think is similar.


Not all bands though.. am fed up of reading of scene bands being signed before gigging and having only a coupla tunes in the can when they sign, but a few photo sessions and image consultancy having secured the deal.
Been buying the NME again recently, forgive me, and the amount of bands am reading about where the reviewer is seriously saying that their new single isn't quite as good as their haircuts, but as good as their shoes, so we're onto a promise here.. atrocious!

Doing some recording myself at the moment, and a bunch of mates in bands doing so too, am really interested in the view of albums being dead, because of iTunes. With artists insisting on releasing EPs or singles only, as people/market don't care for album packages, rather downloading the singles etc.. And that music releases now are seen mainly as a vehicle to get people to gigs where bands make the money. Meaning a lot of bands giving away free music to push more attention to the upcoming tours.
An interesting point in this weeks NME (ok shoot me), that Jack White saying the internet is to blame for the state of modern music and lack of music icons... no need to discuss that point, fairly obvious what he means.

And I don't believe for a minute Michael Jackson is dead, rather knowing that 'being dead' is the best thing to happen to his career since 1984 or whatever, huge profits, reputation sealed and 'controlled' from now on, debts paid off.. everything an artist coulda wanted. And not in an Elvis isn't dead way rumours, but the video footage on YouTube and theories are just obvious to me he's still alive and has concocted the whole thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=En5Q4syywcw this guy alone proves it to me, it's him. Anyway..

Back to mp3s. The new format which is coming out soon, I have read about, but forget details, on how, like as stated about, albums will be digitally released in FLAC/WAV lossless on downloads (thanks to broadband), and come as a big big package including full artwork, sleeve notes and the intention of getting back to what the 70s did to artwork and physical releases and making things overblown and full again and not just icons like that have become on an iPod screen. Dunno if it'll work, but good that broadband will allow lossless to become a norm in download speed, and computer hard-drives being of size to accomodate massive files/folders.

When I was 15/16, just as many people I knew had copied cassettes of albums/singles/radio/bootlegs to original copies, as do now with free downloads to legit purchases. Labels might complain, but you could walk in record shop, as now, and pick up a cassette/cd/vinyl and on the shelf next to it, a format to copy and distribute it yourself. Oh well.


(bugger, my reply to this didn't upload properly, will try again)

I don't blame iTunes for the lack of interest in albums. They sell 'em. It's the iPod shuffle culture of not wanting a bad album track to come on (or heaven forebid be seen by someone looking through). I can't remember the last contemporary album I bought with more than 3-4 good tracks on though. Don't know which came first.

Can't imagine Michael Jackson's court cases helped profits. New format/packages sound good.

Can only speak for myself but I bought all the copied tapes I liked on CD when they came around. mp3s are the first time an identical copy is possible. Even ripping a CD for a CD-R loses quality doesn't it? Not that quality is the first consideration with mp3s.
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Re: what is to become of the music industry?

Postby Marbled » Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:08 pm

LookingGlass wrote:. It's the iPod shuffle culture of not wanting a bad album track to come on (or heaven forebid be seen by someone looking through). I can't remember the last contemporary album I bought with more than 3-4 good tracks on though. Don't know which came first.


So is the album still a vital ingredient from an artist? I know of a few bands and their albums which would've made awesome EPs but they are not great albums cause of fillers.
Cause what makes a great album? the production, vibe, songs, time and place etc? I liked the idea of how Black Sabbath's debut was so good (I haven't heard it), cause they recorded it in a weekend and gave it their everything and then walked away on tour on Monday to promote and spread the word about it, having done it and saying "fuck it's really great" rather than sitting in a studio for months sending out blogs and interviews, quotes and so on saying how it's the best thing since Dark Side Of The Is This It Is Rubbish... when the bloody album is 3 demos in and inbetween producers and financing. The internet and bad journalism has spoilt albums for me, so they always seem to disappoint, as they are so mis-quoted and hyped, mainly by the band themselves so prematurely, that they can only fail unless socially it plops into our laps bang the right time for the media/culture/news climate.
Aside of In Rainbows, only debuts these days come out of the blue, and not always at that! ;) how often do second/third albums land when noone was really expecting them? that song on the radio, a buzz in a 'zine, fan whispers, then it's there and wow. Last time it happened to me was hearing dEUS Instant Street when I didn't know they had a new single coming out, made me cry, shiver and jaw drop as I had no pre-concieved analysis and expectance.
The future of music, therefore, is the element of SURPRISE!! and if Lee isn't one for that, then who is!? well, Jack White, but who else??! :shock:
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